This is a new one. My blood panels came back negative which tested me for everything from classic Borrelia Burgdorferi which is the classic agent that causes what we call Lyme, to rocky mountain spotted fever, and Epstein-Barr! The latter is of some concern as is chronic fatigue since I have been experiencing a bad recurrence of mononucleosis down to the painfully big spleen and total exhaustion most of the time (the latter being a symptom of Lyme as well of course).
With blood panels like these, and these were rigorous, working only about 41% of the time with later cases of Lyme it it a crap-shoot to get positive serology. However – and this is the counter-intuitive part – my natural killer cell count was wickedly low. Mine came in at 18 and they say anything below 30 is dangerously low. The titers normally will reveal a higher killer cell count since the body naturally produces more of them to fight a given illness like a virus or bacteria. But like other auto-immune diseases like AIDS (and I confirmed HIV negative just to be safe) it appears that Lyme can reduce the natural killer cell count in later stages. Combined with studies that show that the bacteria actually cloak themselves in other cell structures, it's a very hard thing to detect when it takes up its residence in your body. I should be at around 100 or so on the low end of what normal might be for a killer cell count which is my estimation of decent health based on the explanation of the results. So a count of 18 by any norm is pretty bad.
I did find references here if you search below for CD57 and here on page 3 where Burrascano says (I quote at length here because it is a big paper):
Chronic Lyme is an altogether different illness than earlier stages, mainly because of the inhibitory effect on the immune system (Bb has been demonstrated in vitro to both inhibit and kill B- and T-cells, and will decrease the count of the CD-57 subset of the natural killer cells). As a result, not only is the infection with Bb perpetuated and allowed to advance, but the entire issue of co-infections arises. Ticks may contain and transmit to the host a multitude of potential pathogens. The clinical presentation of Lyme therefore reflects MANAGING LYME DISEASE, 15th edition, September, 2005 Page 4 of 33 which pathogens are present and in what proportion. Apparently, in early infections, before extensive damage to the immune system has occurred, if the germ load of the co-infectors is low, and the Lyme is treated, many of the other tick-transmitted microbes can be contained and eliminated by the immune system. However, in the chronic patient, because of the inhibited defenses, the individual components of the co-infection are now active enough so that they too add to features of the illness and must be treated. In addition, many latent infections which may have pre-dated the tick bite, for example herpes viruses, can reactivate, thus adding to the illness.
An unfortunate corollary is that serologic tests can become less sensitive as the infections progress, obviously because of the decreased immune response upon which these tests are based. In addition, immune complexes form, trapping Bb antibodies. These complexed antibodies are not detected by serologic testing. Not surprisingly the seronegative patient will convert to seropositive 36% of the time after antibiotic treatment has begun and a recovery is underway. Similarly, the antibody titer may rise, and the number of bands on the western blot may increase as treatment progresses and the patient recovers. Only years after a successfully treated infection will the serologic response begin to diminish.
So that pretty much sucks to be me then. Looks like I have to hit the old chicken soup and sleep much better than I have been doing. The Steelers big game against the Ravens is not going to help tonight, but I need to find a way to shut it off during the halftime show. I think I will sleep in the guest bedroom to be lead not into the temptation of watching it.
The doctor has suggested some designer pro-biotics and a immune defense supplement along with kaya juice. It's all super expensive. My wife and I are researching all of it to see if we have a little snake oil salesmanship here which is what my father-in-law suggests. And I trust his opinion as he is a survivor of lymphoma cancer and had to deal with exactly this issue of a low NK cell count himself!
No related posts.
aw man.
I got so caught up with the singing condoms that I didn't see this yesterday…sucks that you feel awful, sucks even more that there's really not a whole hell of a lot anyone can do about it.
As for the football game…one more reason you need TiVo. It's good for your health!
aw man.
I got so caught up with the singing condoms that I didn't see this yesterday…sucks that you feel awful, sucks even more that there's really not a whole hell of a lot anyone can do about it.
As for the football game…one more reason you need TiVo. It's good for your health!
I'm sorry to hear about your low cell count. I was talking to someone the other day who said her immune system hasn't functioned right since she first had Lyme disease. I guess it attacks different people differently, since other people have had arthritis or chronic fatigue instead after their doctors told them they were cured.
I'm sorry to hear about your low cell count. I was talking to someone the other day who said her immune system hasn't functioned right since she first had Lyme disease. I guess it attacks different people differently, since other people have had arthritis or chronic fatigue instead after their doctors told them they were cured.
I am with you on the NK Cell thing. but I add to it I only have 4 and they don't work correctly. Next, Hypogammaglobulinemia, several antibody's are missing, fybromyalgia, melanoma and that is only the top of the list. I feel like a mutant, the doctors don't know anyone else with such a mess. Yes, life suck with this stuff. All I do is take medication or go to the doctor to get more. I'm only 47 and have been looking every where for help.I try so hard not to complain but some times it just gets to me. So many things I use to do I just can't seem to keep up.
I hope your feeling better. Yes I have TiVo at least I don't miss the big games.
I am with you on the NK Cell thing. but I add to it I only have 4 and they don't work correctly. Next, Hypogammaglobulinemia, several antibody's are missing, fybromyalgia, melanoma and that is only the top of the list. I feel like a mutant, the doctors don't know anyone else with such a mess. Yes, life suck with this stuff. All I do is take medication or go to the doctor to get more. I'm only 47 and have been looking every where for help.I try so hard not to complain but some times it just gets to me. So many things I use to do I just can't seem to keep up.
I hope your feeling better. Yes I have TiVo at least I don't miss the big games.
[...] However, one thing did come back positive: bartonella, spp. Nope. It's not a pasta. It's the same thing that causes illnesses like Oroya fever, trench fever, and … that's right … cat scratch fever. This time I actually have the picture to prove it. What I also found was that this particular bacteria has two of the biggest symptoms I have associated with it: fatigue (which is par for the course with many of them) and it is immuno-suppressant which makes sense out of my freakishly low NK cell count. [...]
There is a huge difference between fatigue that is chronic (last for six months or longer) and the organic neuroimmune disease known as chronic fatigue syndrome (cfs). Not the same thing at all. If you think you have ME/CFS get thee to a specialist who can do appropriate tests. Presently, there is no cure because most of the research money is spent on the tertiary psychosocial aspects instead of the primary organic causes. But, you can manage this disease somewhat.
There is a huge difference between fatigue that is chronic (last for six months or longer) and the organic neuroimmune disease known as chronic fatigue syndrome (cfs). Not the same thing at all. If you think you have ME/CFS get thee to a specialist who can do appropriate tests. Presently, there is no cure because most of the research money is spent on the tertiary psychosocial aspects instead of the primary organic causes. But, you can manage this disease somewhat.
I didn't see this yesterday…sucks that you feel awful, sucks even more that there's really not a whole hell of a lot anyone can do about it.
hope your feeling better. Yes I have TiVo at least I don't miss the big games.
I didn't see this yesterday…sucks that you feel awful, sucks even more that there's really not a whole hell of a lot anyone can do about it.
hope your feeling better. Yes I have TiVo at least I don't miss the big games.
You may want to get tested for Chlamydia Pnuemoniae. It is an intracellular parasite and one co-infection that people with Lyme can have. It also is a parasite of our immune cells. I have the same problem but my doc tested for NK function (not count) and mine was very low. I have been treating for Cpn and Mycoplasma Pnuemoniae for 4 yrs. My fatigue is almost gone but I'm not done yet. There is a group of us who have a patient web site (all volunteers) at:
http://www.cpnhelp.org
You are welcome to take a look and see if it relates to your condition
Raven
I also have a low nk count. It was 9 the last time he tested me. I also was just tested for candida in my blood and it also is positive. I have chronic lymes and my doctor just said my immune system is shot to h***. I have been on a large amount of immune boosters, probiotics, s bourlardii, plus every other supplement a person can take!! My NK cell count was 9 when he first started me on antibiotcs and now he said my immne system is even worse. I go see him next week. Not sure what he will do now. I am also concerned that perhaps my T cells are low alos. I cant help to worry because 2 of my siblings had hodgkins disease and my mother and father both had cancer. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Hey Knotts my NK cell count is lower than 10. I visited Nancy Klimas at the Miller School of Medicine in Miami and they gave me Imunovir. This medicine is sold only in Canada and you need a prescription to get it. This med will boost your NK cells. It's a long treatment but it works. Rivex Pharma Aurora, Ontario Canada. Good luck