Comments on: lgbt = lg! b… and "t"? http://notes-from-offcenter.com/2009/07/09/lgbt-lg-b-and-t/ Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:30:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: brooke http://notes-from-offcenter.com/2009/07/09/lgbt-lg-b-and-t/comment-page-1/#comment-6517 brooke Wed, 28 Oct 2009 06:17:43 +0000 http://notes-from-offcenter.com/?p=2767#comment-6517 these are all great points. i actually do trans education here at my university and nope - the church as a whole is not grappling with the T in LGBT. in discussions at my church about joining PCUSA's covenant network and discussions about the amendment that the presbyteries had to vote on this was the point i felt like i had to say over and over and over and over again. none of the discussion currently, at least in the PCUSA as far as i can tell, is touching on gender identity. thus, as far as i read documents on ordination, someone who is trans and who is either single or in an opposite gender relationship (re: someone who is FTM in a relationship with a woman) could be ordained. now, i suspect that if someone who is trans tries to be ordained and it becomes known denomination wide or once there are more T folks who want to be ordained (isn't there someone who is trans trying to get ordained? i think i read that somewhere) then the discussion will really begin. until then i believe that it is the duty of those who know that that the T is different, and how, to educate those who don't know. these are all great points. i actually do trans education here at my university and nope – the church as a whole is not grappling with the T in LGBT. in discussions at my church about joining PCUSA's covenant network and discussions about the amendment that the presbyteries had to vote on this was the point i felt like i had to say over and over and over and over again. none of the discussion currently, at least in the PCUSA as far as i can tell, is touching on gender identity. thus, as far as i read documents on ordination, someone who is trans and who is either single or in an opposite gender relationship (re: someone who is FTM in a relationship with a woman) could be ordained. now, i suspect that if someone who is trans tries to be ordained and it becomes known denomination wide or once there are more T folks who want to be ordained (isn't there someone who is trans trying to get ordained? i think i read that somewhere) then the discussion will really begin. until then i believe that it is the duty of those who know that that the T is different, and how, to educate those who don't know.

]]> By: brooke http://notes-from-offcenter.com/2009/07/09/lgbt-lg-b-and-t/comment-page-1/#comment-5965 brooke Wed, 28 Oct 2009 01:17:43 +0000 http://notes-from-offcenter.com/?p=2767#comment-5965 these are all great points. i actually do trans education here at my university and nope - the church as a whole is not grappling with the T in LGBT. in discussions at my church about joining PCUSA's covenant network and discussions about the amendment that the presbyteries had to vote on this was the point i felt like i had to say over and over and over and over again. none of the discussion currently, at least in the PCUSA as far as i can tell, is touching on gender identity. thus, as far as i read documents on ordination, someone who is trans and who is either single or in an opposite gender relationship (re: someone who is FTM in a relationship with a woman) could be ordained. now, i suspect that if someone who is trans tries to be ordained and it becomes known denomination wide or once there are more T folks who want to be ordained (isn't there someone who is trans trying to get ordained? i think i read that somewhere) then the discussion will really begin. until then i believe that it is the duty of those who know that that the T is different, and how, to educate those who don't know. these are all great points. i actually do trans education here at my university and nope – the church as a whole is not grappling with the T in LGBT. in discussions at my church about joining PCUSA's covenant network and discussions about the amendment that the presbyteries had to vote on this was the point i felt like i had to say over and over and over and over again. none of the discussion currently, at least in the PCUSA as far as i can tell, is touching on gender identity. thus, as far as i read documents on ordination, someone who is trans and who is either single or in an opposite gender relationship (re: someone who is FTM in a relationship with a woman) could be ordained. now, i suspect that if someone who is trans tries to be ordained and it becomes known denomination wide or once there are more T folks who want to be ordained (isn't there someone who is trans trying to get ordained? i think i read that somewhere) then the discussion will really begin. until then i believe that it is the duty of those who know that that the T is different, and how, to educate those who don't know.

]]> By: clayboy » This week’s link love: eclectic selections for your delectation http://notes-from-offcenter.com/2009/07/09/lgbt-lg-b-and-t/comment-page-1/#comment-5421 clayboy » This week’s link love: eclectic selections for your delectation Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:51:39 +0000 http://notes-from-offcenter.com/?p=2767#comment-5421 [...] Tatusko, continuing to stir things on the sexuality front wonders about the appropriateness of lumping LGBT people all together in a [...] [...] Tatusko, continuing to stir things on the sexuality front wonders about the appropriateness of lumping LGBT people all together in a [...]

]]> By: Marika http://notes-from-offcenter.com/2009/07/09/lgbt-lg-b-and-t/comment-page-1/#comment-5420 Marika Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:34:08 +0000 http://notes-from-offcenter.com/?p=2767#comment-5420 Just today I've been rereading Judith Butler's Undoing Gender, which touches on a lot of the issues you've raised. I think from her perspective, all of the LGBT categories have in common that people who fall into any one of them are excluded from recognition by mainstream society because of the way they transgress boundaries of gender and heterosexuality, which Butler sees as very much connected. She's concerned with all of them, because what she's primarily interested is the way that when people don't fit into existing categories of gender and sexuality, they're treated as if they're not fully human; though she discusses elsewhere the fact that people of different race and class etc can also be pushed to the margins of society, so no group fighting for recognition for any of these people can act as if their issue is the only one that matters, or even the only one affecting members of their group.<br><br>From what Butler says, there's been a fair amount of debate Just today I've been rereading Judith Butler's Undoing Gender, which touches on a lot of the issues you've raised. I think from her perspective, all of the LGBT categories have in common that people who fall into any one of them are excluded from recognition by mainstream society because of the way they transgress boundaries of gender and heterosexuality, which Butler sees as very much connected. She's concerned with all of them, because what she's primarily interested is the way that when people don't fit into existing categories of gender and sexuality, they're treated as if they're not fully human; though she discusses elsewhere the fact that people of different race and class etc can also be pushed to the margins of society, so no group fighting for recognition for any of these people can act as if their issue is the only one that matters, or even the only one affecting members of their group.

From what Butler says, there's been a fair amount of debate

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